Soooo.....Tubby may have had his issues as the coach of the UK b-ball team, but to my recollection, he never got his ASS handed to him by the likes of GARDNER WEBB!!!!!!!!
Somewhere, in Minnesota, a man named Orlando is probably still enjoying a very well deserved fit of laughter!
30 comments:
Is Gardner Webb even a college?
Go Hoosiers!
Tubby has too much integrity for that...he knows how it is...the Cats will be fine...change is difficult and nobody knows that better than Tubby
Give Billy a chance. This is a big change for this team. It's just going to take time. I have hope.
I have no problem giving anyone a chance, I just think it's hilarious that all these UK fanatics thought changing coaches was going to suddenly make this team a contender overnight...aint gonna work that way. It's called "parity" and it's spreading thoughout college sports. There are no dynasties anymore...I simply think the good folks in Lexington have to accept this.
there have always been jolting games after a change in coaches, so what, it happens, Pitino had a quite an upset, too...the only thing the fans need to accept is we lost a game and the transition will take a little time...there are still dynasties and UK is one of them..it's not the end of anything just the beginning of Billy's time and he is going to ROCK!!!
I doubt seriously that Rick Pitino ever lost to a division 2 school while coaching UK... I may be wrong, but I doubt it.
And I'm not suggesting the team won't do well...or maybe even do well in the tournament, but anyone in the know (and with a shred of objectivity) will tell you that the era of the Dynasty is over. (The NBA has seen to that) Look at DUKE- they can't even fill their facility these days. The closest thing to a dynasty in college b-ball these days is, quite frankly, Florida. And we'll see how they do this year after the loss of all their big guns...
I think parity is a good thing. It makes the sport interesting. Look at college football and our own beloved Wildcats. Would ANYONE have predictited that they would spend time in the top ten,beat Louisville, and upset the #1 team in the nation AND beign the toast of the town AFTER the start of the b-ball season??? I'm pretty certain that wasn't on anyone's preseason radar.
I admire your fandom...and the fact that you still support them. There are folks in this town who are already wanting to run Billy Clyde out of town on a rail. I ;m not one of 'em. I agree that he needs time. But a loss like that is shocking, and it speaks volumes as to how far this team has to go to acheive what the fans in this area demand.
Gardner Webb is a division one team...and Pitino loss to Kansas at Kansas by 55 points..why would you doubt something without knowing it? you're smarter than that...
"but anyone in the know (and with a shred of objectivity)"...why would you think I wasn't in the know? my nephew is a referee and most of my family has a sports background..
trust me, I have plenty of knowledge of what is going on even if I am female..and you're right..Florida is a dynasty too, back to back National Championships..
plus...I am not saying Gardner Webb is good, just that they are division 1, in the Atlantic Sun conference (I keep calling them Ava Gardner, by the way)...and if UK wasn't considered a dynasty, Gardner Webb's website would not be full of articles about how fabulous the win was...man, check it out..there is one titled, "Their finest hour in Rupp Arena"...
OK so my bad. Gardner Webb is division one. BUT, Kansas is ALSO Division I,("... Pitino loss to Kansas at Kansas by 55 points...") and quite the powerhouse during the time of Pitino's tenure.
I'm not suggesting you don't have any b-ball knowledge, and certainly not because you're a woman. Quite honestly, I came by my love of the game (and my love /hate with Vandy) through my Mother, not my Dad. All I'm saying is that fans in this town lack objectivity. I saw it in spades when Tubby was getting raked over the coals over the last three years. The man had the best winning percentage in the NCAA during that period, but because we weren't going deep in the tourney, people wanted his head on a plate. (I also feel there was probably a bit of racism at work, but that's another post alltogether).
College sports have changed, and fans of all the "dynasty" programs have to change their POV with the times. We should not EXPECT a final four every year. That's unrealistic. Those days are over. College recruits don't care about the "storied history" of a program anymore. They care about where they can get the most exposure, TV time and playing time. In short, they want to get paid by the big leagues, and college is merely a stepping stone to that payday...
But that's it for me...I have a show opening this week and no more time to debate b-ball (much as I love to!)
yes, Kansas is division 1..
my response was to yours,
"I doubt seriously that Rick Pitino ever lost to a division 2 school while coaching UK... I may be wrong, but I doubt it."
I didn't say Pitino did but, your statement indicated Gardner Webb was division 2 and it is not..that's all..
as far as debating basketball, this is the thread you started and I am just responding to it..
the top programs always strive to get into the final 4...and all that you said at the end of your post is exactly right and that is why UK is one of the top programs/stepping stones, because of the exposure the players get and the attention of the program...
I never said the program shouldn't strive to reach the final four...I said the FANS shouldn't have those expectations every year. It's unrealistic and unfair.
Oh well...I suppose we agree to disagree.
very true...but, I have to say just a little more...we all have expectations..every time we mount a show we have the expectation it will be a success and our audiences have that same expectation and that is fair and realistic...when I taught theatre in college I would always compare theater to sports to help the athletes understand..having been an athlete in my youth I realized they are very much alike...practice, timing, movement, memorization, staging, costumes and direction..the last is expectation of the player and audience...that is why they are fans, you have given them expectations..
But if a show is stellar, but not the best possible you would never run the director out of town. I agree completely with Tim on this one the age of the Dynasty is over. This is coming form a die hard IU fan (another of those dynasty teams). There are 5 or 6 teams that the fans expect to be there every year, but that just isn't going to happen any more.
Smaller schools are much better because they are unable to attract the top notch talent. That means that they in general can keep their teams in tact for 4 years. College basketball has always been and always will be a team sport. The name on the front is more important than the name on the back.
Eric Gordon is the much hyped freshman at IU, ranked number two in the country, expected to go early in the draft next summer. However it is the senior leadership that will make IU an elite 8 contender.
Those who argue for the powerhouse dynasties, need to look at UK loosing to Gardner Webb, USC loosing to Mercer, MSU loosing to Grand Valley. When will we as fans stop being shocked that these small programs are almost as good as our "dynasty teams".
And for the record loosing the Kansas at Kansas is no where near to loosing on your home court to a barely D1 team. But for gods sake give the man a chance, he is probably still unpacking boxes, he can't be expected to teach his system in just a few months. If halfway through the SEC games they are still loosing like this, well then maybe.
Go Hoosiers!
there will always be fans off the charts, that is a certainty..and personally, I adored Tubby and am sorry we lost him in whatever way it came down..this does happen everywhere, unfortunately..
with the Kansas loss, the point spread was larger, perhaps a better team but, they didn't make it to the final 4...it may average out to be the same..like you suggest don't dog the smaller team that isn't a dynasty (personally, I can not stand that word)...
anyway, losses happen in every way..it was just fine to point that out..
here's the thing, the tone of this thread seemed to be unfairly kicking Billy in the same way Tubby was kicked...bottom line, I expect Billy to have a fair go at this..PATIENCE, that's all..
oh...and GO CATS!!
I am able to sign in! I am finally able to sign in! Where did everybody go?
Here's what I know: basketball is especially fun when UK wins.
This "Kimberley" person is Kim Dixon.
right on, Kim!!!
I forgot to respond to Steve, when you said, "But if a show is stellar, but not the best possible you would never run the director out of town."...oh yes, that does happen, too...it surely does..
Hi Kimmie,
I don't think anyone here is pulling to get rid of Billie, far from it. I think that we have all gotten hoked into an argument over essentially nothing. We all seem to agree that Billie should be given a chance, the disagreement seems to be more on the state of college basketball not the fate of one coach.
Go Hoosiers.
hoked? umm..i'm not sure I follow you there...what do you mean?
anyway..the discussion (not argument)has been about the fans, coach and team..I find it interesting..I like hearing other thoughts..
oops..
GO CATS..
There is an interesting article on espn.com today. Lloyd Carr is 121-39 as head coach of Michigan's football team, he is 81-22 in the Big 10 (11), he has one national championship, 5 Big 10 (11) titles and by all accounts is a thoroughly honorable guy. He is also 8-3 this season, including the horrible App State loss, and is 1-6 against Ohio State since 2001. The article basically says if he loses to OSU this weekend, he is out at Michigan. I think if anything, the pressure is worse at football schools. Look at what happened to Frank Solich at Nebraska and Tyrone Willingham at Notre Dame. Charlie Weiss got a 10 year extension from Notre Dame and now they are 1-9 and he might be fired as well...
Peace
Rick
A little bird (named Ashley) told me that Movie Tavern is broadcasting the UK games. The events are free (I don't think they can legally charge for something like that). This means that I can go watch a giant game, eat and drink and not have to clean anything up!
Another little bird (named Adam) and I have been discussing the Billy Clyde thing. I really believe that UK has the cruelest fans in Division 1 Men's Basketball. "Fair Weather Friends" is the nicest thing that I think we can call ourselves. "Bloodthirsty Harpies Hell-Bent on Immediate Satisfaction" is a touch more accurate. I think Billy needs at least two seasons before we run him out of town.
I have personally seen two directors that have been run out of town by an angry mob. Okay, maybe it wasn't an angry mob, but embellishment IS the key to good storytelling. I learned that from The Kids in the Hall.
GO CATS!!!
Rick, I love reading all those stats, you are a "guy in the know".. I have heard Lloyd Carr being compared to the Tubby Smith of football..it doesn't seem fair that a coach is as good as his last game..geez..(sounds like theatre talk)...
here's the thing -which I am sure you know- the Cats are being taught a completely new system from ball-line defense (which some view as antiquated and the game has progressed beyond that, Tubby is one of the few that coach ball-line defense and it is very complicated, which leaves the other team open for more 3 pt. shots but, not as many short shots) anyway, Billy is wanting to change it to man on man..this will take time and most of the fans do understand this..
also Kim, I so agree with you about the reaction of other fans, I can't stand it when they boo those college boys, my gosh, it is so glaringly rude!!
oh...and- you are or aren't in division 1, there is no "barely" to it (barely is an opinion, there is a criteria to be met)..I certainly understand team, same thing as an ensemble..and yet, another thing Billy is working on...
GO CATS!!!
I kinda wish I gave a rat's ass about UK b-ball, but I'd rather eat pie.
GO PUMPKIN!
Missy,
I am sooo with you! I went to UK for four years and am proud to say I never went to a game. Nor have I ever watch one on TV.
Bring on the Coconut Cream (topped with whipped cream, not merinque)!
I was actually almost run out of town by an angry mob when I first got to lovely lex vegas and if I left tomorrow, i'm sure there is an angry mob who would rejoice over my departure...and i knew the mob that was out to get me...which is worse than an anonymous mob...c'est la vie!!
Becky, I think Billy wants to get to a point where he can unleash 40 minutes of hell, run and press and pressure teams and try to run them out of the gym...i love ramel bradley and joe crawford but i don't think that suits their games. patterson, legion and his incoming recruiting class is more in the right direction.
Benny Ambush and I used to talk about how it takes at least 3 years for an AD to leave his/her mark on a theatre and i think it is much the same way for coaches. And I beat the sports/theatre analogy to death but it is sooooooo true. Particularly coming from my baseball background, which I love more than basketball and football...
I gotta go, there is an angry mob outside my house burning torches and complaining about ticket prices....
Peace
Rick
Rick, too funny..
I agree when you said,..."ramel bradley and joe crawford but i don't think that suits their games. patterson, legion and his incoming recruiting class is more in the right direction."
missy, sorry about the on & on but, it is fun for some and that is what the subject of the thread is...
anyway..peach cobbler is delightful..Go CATS!
Rick, regarding Lloyd Carr, I think the real nail is the coffin is the Appalachin State loss. If you coach a program like Michagan, you simply can't lose that game (nor can you go 1-6 against your arch rival!)
The real question is- when Carr gets the boot, are they going to pull Les Myles away from LSU?
Miles's contract at LSU has a specific clause in it about him leaving to coach Michigan. If he does, he has to pay LSU a $1.25 million buy out...!! Yikes!
Peace
Rick
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